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In Loving Memory...
~ Gogo Fatale ~


6/2/01 - 10/11/11
~ Forever the Marest of Them All ~
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Monday, July 11, 2011

Tell me what you see!

Tell me what you see in this video in terms of soundness.



What I see is a horse who has not been this sound since her reinjury back in November '10, 8 months ago. For the first time, I am almost willing to call her "sound." (At least, as of today.) Blowing the suspected adhesion seems to have done her a world of good. The tendon sheath injection was definitely the right way to go. Regular sheath injections will probably be necessary for her if we are to hope for a riding career (competitive or otherwise), but that's fine. Whatever needs to be done to keep her comfortable.


And speaking of all things veterinary, I consulted with Dr. H about the udder today, which was HUGE and lumpy when I arrived at the barn. Her temp was still normal today (100.5), and she still doesn't mind her udder being incessantly poked and prodded. The discharge is still a milky-watery liquid, and it doesn't have thickness/chunks/odor/other nasty things in it (hope you're not eating right now.... mmmm mental image), which is good. We agreed to treat it like a mastitis, and I ran up to the vet office to get 5 days of Uniprim. She definitely won't eat that in her (meager) amount of supplements she gets daily, so I have to shove it down her throat via syringe. I also am trying rubbing castor oil the udder as well, which was suggested to me... it seems like a stupid idea, but I guess if it works, then there you go. If it fails, whatever... I don't expect it to do much anyway. The antibiotics will hopefully knock out the infection, and if I keep emptying out the udder, hopefully we'll clear this up in the next week.

Joys of having a mare! I'd take this udder nonsense over regular sheath cleanings any day though, I will tell you that with NO hesitation!

46 comments:

Dom said...

She looks ALMOST sound tracking left, but she's definitely still off to the right.

Net said...

Which leg was the re-injury? I'm sure you've said, but my memory is carp.

It looks to me as if she doesn't step under herself as well with the right hind - but it also looks like a standard weaker side issue rather than a lameness issue. I wouldn't look at that video and think there's any lameness at all, just lack of condition.

Andrea said...

I actually see it more in the RH when she is tracking left.
Net, her weaker side is definitely the right - always has been. Which doesn't help in this situation.

smazourek said...

I see her being a tiny bit short on the right hind no matter which way she's tracking.

Sydney_bitless said...

I agree with the right hind still looking a bit off. It does not seem to be an apparent lameness, but more of her just being a bit "off" could be because of the built up scar tissue, lack of condition etc. Either way shes looking good. I wouldn't have looked at that video for a lame horse honestly. Have you ever tried getting thermal imaging done on her? I just trailered a friend to a vet who used it upon not knowing what areas were hurting in her mare and it turned out to be a completely different area than any of us or the vet even fathomed was causing pain. Definitely useful for post injury since that was what my friends mare had.

Jennifer said...

Being 100% honest, I can't tell. Her mind isn't "in the longe", and she's all strung out. Not being focused on what she's doing, anything that might look like lameness could be distraction instead.

Heather (hpalmete) said...

I know you're looking for something insightful and thought provoking but...

I think she looks great! Super great! She happy, engaged (not in the lunging, of course :-)), and pain free. If pressed I might concede she looks a little stiff but, but...

She just looks superb to me! I know such thoughts are dangerous, but I would love for this post to be the very beginning of only more good things for you both.

Checkmark115 said...

I honestly cant tell either, but probably because I don't know her like I know my horse.

Abby said...

I really don't even see any lameness. Agreed, she is obviously distracted and strung out which could be contributing to her looking a little off. Any of this apparent lameness could also be contributed to lack of conditioning and ahem, a little extra weight :)

Where was this video taken?

eventer79 said...

I wouldn't say 100%, I see a little something off/quick on one side, but she is pretty damn close! Way cool, I'm excited for y'all!!

Glad the milking is going well too -- if you ever do get tempted by a fabo gelding though, you really don't have to clean them all the time, a normal level of smegma is fine. I check for a bean maybe once a year and knock off big chunks (a 5 second jobbie) if I see anything hanging out, otherwise, they don't need much, LOL.

Lauren said...

If I saw the video with no explanation other than "what do you think about this horse", I would say she looks good, let's see her go undersaddle. Outwardly she just looks like she's been out of work (mentally and physically).

Emily said...

There is just the tiniest hint of unevenness. I see it the most in the video when the editing switches directions, she's obviously short striding. But towards the end of the vid she starts to look better.

Bif said...

Being uber-critical, not because I think she looks that bad, but because you are asking for other eyes to see what may be out there. She looks a lot better than some horses you see showing, so I hope you don't think I'm too harsh, just putting out suggestions.

*To me, she looks worse going to the right.
*She appears to have tension in her hindquarters both ways... to me it looks like tension, not stiffness, indicating there is some discomfort.
*She's a bit "hoppy" at times in both directions on the right hind, but her left hind looks a little "slinky" sometimes as it lands... a slide into place with hesitation, if that makes sense. I can't tell if she's shifted her hindquarters to load a little differently, if I'm distracted by the pretty sock, or what exactly. =)

I don't think it would be "wrong" to ride her, but I do think it might be better to keep her on turnout only a while longer. Or to limit riding to walking in hacking situation (long and straight, not in an arena). If she were old and everything was "set" I could see using her at this level of unevenness if she was comfortable with the work, but since she is still going through changes in her healing process (blowing adhesions, etc.) it may be better to keep it low key until her body gets to her level of "set".

Did that make any sense? =D

And of course, battling the bulge with the less exercisable is tough, and may justify undersaddle work, or lots of ponying or hand walking out on trail.

When you can afford it again, a chiro might be able to help with some of the tension, and help figure out if she has some compensation changes, or if it still leg issues alone.

Rooting for you and Gogo!!

Young Equestrian said...

Well, since Gogo is still producing what appears to be milk, I think you should take full advantage of the situation and make some horse ice cream. Mmmmm!

Val said...

I think she looks really good. I was trying to see some of the little things mentioned in the comments, but I would really be reaching if I said that I could see them. It would definitely be easier to tell if her mind was in the lungeing, but she looks happy just the same.

She does offer a canter in the right direction, which makes me think that she does not want to push off her right hind in trot, but who can say if this is lack of fitness or something else. Go Gogo!

Frizzle said...

Holy chubba wubba!! :-)

I'm no lameness expert and right now my own horse is pretty "off," so to me she's lookin' pretty darn good.

jenj said...

I agree with others - she looks a smidge less comfortable to the right than she does to the left. BUT that could be because she's not fit, she's not engaged, and she just looks a little... hmm... not quite 100% comfortable in her body. And I'm probably only seeing that because I know I'm supposed to be looking for something! :)

Do you do carrot stretches, belly lifts, and/or butt tucks? Those shouldn't affect her tendon, and while they won't help her lose weight, then might help her strengthen and supple.

thistimedressage said...

Yeah, we're all of course going to be lookin' for lameness, given her history.

When I try to look at her with fresh eyes, I see a fat & out of shape SOUND mare, who simply needs some fitness to look 100%. I'm not seeing lameness, frankly. Unfitness, one-sidedness--yes. But that would be typical of ANY horse who had not been worked in over 6 months.

In a nutshell, she looks great. I think building up her fitness is the right thing to do, so she can build up muscle/lose fat--both of which will help take pressure off the old injury.

Jenny said...

I saw the same thing as most people posted.... there is a small amount of unevenness in her stride... I saw it in both directions, but it is more pronounced track-right. However... it could be exacerbated by being out-of-shape. And like you say, her right is her weaker side, so it could be more an issue of her being unbalanced track-right and gets herself going all wonky in that direction because her hind end has gotten weak. Was it the right hind that she initially injured?

Kristen Eleni Shellenbarger said...

Well, if Laz moved like Gogo in that video I'd be over the moon. Yes, I think she looks SUPER close to sound but I do feel there is a slight slight slight off. But promising :) Especially being she's not in fighting shape but apparently she thinks she pregnant from all that grass and wants someone to feed ;)

Lisa said...

I can't see anything other soundness issues than an unfit fatty (CUTE AS A BUTTON!!) mare that may be a little less willing to push through stiffness tracking right. If I didn't know her history I would assume she would warm up and push through the stiffness.

ThIngs are looking up for our Gogo!

Jennifer said...

For the non-dressage crowd, what stinks is ..
The slightest bit of "off" will get ya DQ'd. What most of the world calls "more sound than they've seen lately", a dressage judge will ring the "idjit bell" and send you back to the barn ..

=(
I'd still love to see some focused longing.

Andrea said...

Oh man Jennifer I don't want to disagree but I have to. I see some wonky unsoundnesses behind in the dressage arena (especially in eventing dressage) but the only thing I EVER see people getting rung out for is lameness up front.

Also keep in mind that is has been over a year since Gogo's last hock injections.... she is a little bit NQR in the right hock and the injections do seem to help that a bit. I should put up some comparison videos from this time last year.

Jennifer said...

It's a shame you weren't at the show that Ransom and I were DQ'd at.
For lameness behind.

But I'm sure you've seen more judges than I have.

Andrea said...

Well, I think judges should DQ lame horses! I'm glad there are some out there that do. I see a lot of horses that SHOULD be DQ'd for lameness, but aren't.

Andrea said...

Also, it's not like I'm about to go hop on her and take her to a dressage show next week ;) I think in terms of sitting on her we're talking just walking, and maybe bopping around a little at the trot to see how she feels.

Jennifer said...

Until she can actually trot out with light collection on a line, I wouldn't think adding human body weight is a good idea.

eventer79 said...

I'd get on her -- I think not taking that weight off is a far bigger risk than sitting on her. You know she's loading those joints and tissues and long walks and hills can take some of that off. In my mind, if it were my horse, it's worth the risk.

Andrea said...

Jennifer, I personally feel that work on a small circle (lunging) is potentially very dangerous and damaging for tendons in rehab. She needs to go in straight lines, and straight lines only. I only put her on the lunge for diagnostic work at this point, and even then I am careful that I don't go for any longer than I have to.
I'd also like to think that she understands the concept of collection, but let's face it, she doesn't. She has only just started Second Level work when she got injured. Her knowledge of collection doesn't really extend beyond shoulder-in. I wouldn't ask a tendon rehab to do ANY sort of collection until they were fully healed either, especially not a hind-end tendon rehab. Just my personal belief!

Jennifer said...

Then don't ask for opinions. She's ignoring you, 100%, lolly gagging on the longe line, doing her own thing from the shoulders up. Her brain isn't on the work, making any kind of lameness eval impossible.

Since I'm the "target" of the day here, might I also suggest a serious weight loss plan. Carrying all that extra weight isn't good on healthy legs, not to mention healing ones.

Andrea said...

Aaah, you must be the same Jennifer from last year's Elephant in the Corner commentary. The one also giving Stacey some hell over on her blog?

Are we not discussing a serious weight loss plan? We all agree that she is dangerously, morbidly obese. Aren't we trying to figure out HOW to get her to lose this weight, hence the under saddle-or-not suggestions?

I did ask for opinions, and thank you for yours.

Jennifer said...

Stacey who?
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, seriously ...

Andrea said...

Aah, okay, good, nevermind. Forgive me for knowing a few too many similar Jennifers.

Andrea said...

Although a quick search tells me you are this same person after all: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4171154556541807685&postID=5266127798159955973

Jennifer said...

My bad. Good for you. Amazing detective work. I don't bother usually to memorize bloggers by their first names.

I stand by my opinion there, and here. Neither were "attacks", just not the most preferred opinion.

I don't think I'm fat, or lazy, or so terribly out of shape. I also wouldn't qualify as a fitness trainer. Doesn't make me, or most people I know, less of a person.

Your mare isn't paying attention in the video, and it makes it hard to guess if she's truly "DQ lame".

Good day.

Jennifer said...

My bad. Good for you. Amazing detective work. I don't bother usually to memorize bloggers by their first names.

I stand by my opinion there, and here. Neither were "attacks", just not the most preferred opinion.

I don't think I'm fat, or lazy, or so terribly out of shape. I also wouldn't qualify as a fitness trainer. Doesn't make me, or most people I know, less of a person.

Your mare isn't paying attention in the video, and it makes it hard to guess if she's truly "DQ lame".

Good day.

Net said...

So I still say I don't see "lame" there, and don't necessarily see a shorter stride on one side as lame. Especially if that's her weaker side - she WILL be uneven, particularly if not fit, even if totally sound. The muscles won't work evenly. Horses just aren't that even naturally. She may just naturally be more even than she looks.

I also agree - I would either hand walk or get her out under saddle, walking on flat and (relatively) hard surfaces. Heck, my horse stabbed himself with the clip of a shoe and I got sick so we were both out of work for 2 months. He and I walk several miles a day on hard flat surfaces to rebuild some strength while still riding also. Given how much time she's had off, and the fact she allows you to without going bonkers like my OTTB, I'd probably do the walking even if she were 100% sound, and probably on her. I would avoid any kind of lateral work for quite a while, too. (And most of this I say for other people's benefit - I believe Andrea knows much more than I do about rehabbing and a lot of what I've learned has been from her then backed up by vets and others with rehabbing experience.)

Checkmark115 said...

LAWL at Jenn. I didnt check the link but if you ar ethe same, you really just want a fight doncha? Plus her "detective work" wasn't that hard to find, Stacey's blog is a blog followed by many and your comments are oretty easy to remember.
Anyways, I agree with Andrea, longe for rehab is a no-no! That puts way too much torque (I think) on the ligaments, tendons, muscles etc. Even on a sound horse I NEVER lunge over 15 min., and barely even 10. Possibly though Andrea, Maybe longe her briefly with some sidereins and circingle to possibly get her in a better state of mind (attention wise) and it would be more accurate.
Otherwise, mounted light walking I think is a grand idea, I just (personally) wouldnt take her on trails with rocks or anything. But, I mean you don't weight a kajillion lbs, and some walking would do the fattie some good :P
And I just read, like, all 37 comments...gott alove procrastinating writing papers!

Checkmark115 said...

pretty*
weigh*
gotta love*

geez. i is college stoodent.

Andrea said...

You speel good! Hookd awn fonix!

Scylla said...

Andrea,

Re Gogo's milk issue.

Not sure if this is helpful but I once owned a pony mare, who had never foaled, and who had continous milk. All the time, her whole life.

Yes you could milk her but it wasn't necessary, she never had any problems other than a swollen udder which tended to get a little itchy if you didn't wash it for her. No infection, no temps nothing... just permament milk.

I used to joke with her that she missed her century and should have been a mongol pony ridden by Genghis Khan himself.

Nicole Redman said...

I can see it, but only because I'm looking for it. But, is she normally that guarded in her topline? More than the few uneven steps, I'm interested in why she won't relax. That could be more telling.

Andrea said...

My theory as to the high-headedness - a lesson going on in the arena down the hill. If you look for when she is lookiest, it is outward when she is near the pole on the ground, in the direction of the lesson. And she had never actually been in this arena before, so I'm not really surprised.

Meghan said...

She's definitely distracted in the video, and to me she does look slightly, intermittently off to the right at the trot. Her right lead canter seemed to arise more out of high spirits than compensating. She looks much better than my arthritic mare has been looking, that's for sure.

I hear you on the weight situation, and trying to balance her needs without screwing something else up. My mare is an easy keeper, and when I'm not able to really work her and canter her she gets a hay belly in no time. I don't like her carrying extra weight when she's already sore, but I don't want to overwork her either. It's a tough balance.

I almost wonder if it wouldn't make more sense for you to hold off on any kind of "structured" exercise and just keep her on turnout for a while longer, since she seems to re-injure herself when she works under weight. Weren't you originally advised to do a full year of turnout before returning to walk rides? The extra weight doesn't seem to be breaking her down at this point and turnout seems to be your best hope. Like I said, it's a tough call. You are very brave to be soliciting opinions on such a difficult issue. I really respect you for that.

Kate said...

I'm reluctant to comment, because then you'll have 45 not 44 comments, but alas the temptation takes over. Self restraint was never my strong point! I digress. To me she doesn't look lame. She does however look like she's got some uneven usage of her body. Perhaps regular careful conditioning to muscle her up a little more evenly, and then see if any lameness is apparent?

A/N: She looks so different in comparison to how she used to look! Watching that video whilst looking at the pic o you two out XC? She looks like a totally different pony :P

FD said...

I wouldn't call that sound, but I wouldn't call it lame either. She's definitely short on the RH on both reins - I actually see it more clearly to the left than the right. There's some minor headbobbing and guarding in the way that she moves to the right which I personally suspect supports your theory that her R hock is giving her a bit of gyp. While it might be nice to give it longer, she is really quite fat. I think if it was my call, I'd opt to walk her - in hand / ponied if that was an option, under saddle if it wasn't.