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In Loving Memory...
~ Gogo Fatale ~

6/2/01 - 10/11/11
~ Forever the Marest of Them All ~

Sunday, January 31, 2010

Baby Daddy A Go-Go

Ladies and gentlemen, meet Cicera's Icewater:

Gogo's (almost certainly) chosen baby daddy for next year. The video is not of the best quality but the stallion IS!

A little blurb about him:

"Cicera's Icewater is the American Holsteiner Association 2002 approvals tour Stallion Champion. At the time of his approval Icewater was the highest scoring and highest bonited Holsteiner stallion ever approved in North America. He is also approved and licensed RPSI and GOV (Oldenburg Breeders Societ/ German Oldenburg Verband). He stands 16.3+ hands. He is a leggy, refined, modern type. At his AHHA approvals he received 53 bonits: type 8, topline 7, front legs 7, hind legs 7, walk 7, trot 9, canter 8. The German judges loved his huge, elastic gaits! For his pedigree he was awarded the absolute top score 10! He is one of only two stallions ever have received the score. In 2003 Cicera's Icewater competed in the Five Year Old Young Jumper Championships, and placed in the top 15 at the East Coast Finals at the Hampton Classic. In the spring of 2005 Cicera's Icewater completed his stallion performance requirements in eventing with Team O'Connor. Icewater placed in the top three of all five events that he competed at, with notably excellent dressage scores. Icewater is also approved RHPSI Stallion Book I, with a total score of 60, with bonits such as "8" type, "9" canter, etc. Icewater is by international show jumper Corofino (by Corrado I), out of State Premium Mare Cicera, Stamm 474A, Cor de la Bryere - Liguster. Cicera is full sister to the late Cicero that stood in the US and to the international show jumper and extraordinary sire Cavalier Royale (see link at the bottom of this page and read about his impressive progeny!). Several years after his premature death at 17 Cavalier Royale is now also a leading sire of eventers 2006, (he is, for example, sire of Cavaldi, second place at Fair Hill CCI*** 2003, and Starlight). Cavalier Royale had no less than THREE entries in Rolex 2007, including the WINNER Ben Along Time. Cicera, the dam of Cicera's Icewater, and full sister to Cavalier Royale, is also the dam of the young international Grand Prix jumper Kira (by Carthago). Ridden by Ludo Philippaerts, Kira (a maternal half sister to Icewater) came third with a double clear round in the 2004 $91,488 Grand Prix of Cannes, one of the most coveted Grand Prix in Europe. In 2003 year she successfully competed in the international Audi-Championship for Young Horses. This proven pedigree with depth heightens the predictability of passing on awesome performance and looks! Icewater's sire Corofino I competes in international show jumping under Italian colors, and is one of the Holsteiner Verband flagship stallions per frozen semen. His full brother Corofino II recently qualified for the German Championship of five year old stallions. Corofino has sired a number of approved stallions, successful jumpers and excellent dressage performers, and is especially known for passing on outstanding rideability. If you are looking for an EXTRAORDINARY MOVER that also can jump, here you go! Icewater comes from Holsteiner Stamm 474A, one of the best and most successful motherlines in the world. This motherline Stamm 474A has produced close to 40 approved stallions plus international sport horses. At the 2004 Holsteiner Verband approvals no less than two stallions from Stamm 474A were approved. Icewater's first foals are a living proof of Icewater being an outstanding refinement sire of modern type: they are very elegant, refined, athletic and correct and most of all they are destined to excell in performance."

And this is the part that just makes me think they're a match made in heaven, which I posted about a long time ago:

They are jump twins. Love it.

Concering what Gogo's high and low points are:

Gogo's Physical and Mental Strengths:
- Incredibly intelligent
- Independant, bold, level-headed and calm
- Excellent feet
- Textbook shoulder angle, excellent for scope over fences and reach in dressage
- Huge natural gallop
- Three quality gaits, exceptional canter
- Nice hind end
- Compact yet light build
- Overall body angles quite correct - athletic build

Gogo's Physical and Mental Weaknesses:
- Can be very opinionated.... need a stallion with a tractable mind!
- Forearm a little shorter than desireable
- Upright LF foot (not genetic as far as we can tell)
- Offset front cannons
- SLIGHT (VERY slight) toeing out in front
- Somewhat tied in below the knee
- (Really, in general, not the best front legs... but she's been completely sound on them and they are not glaring, violent faults.. just there when you look for them. They are blemish free, tight, and cool every day of her life!)
- A hair flat in the croup
- Weak topline, neck put on slightly upside down (her biggest and most noticable fault in my mind)
- Slightly narrow in the body and chest
- Needs more room in her throatlatch throatlatch

So the biggest improvements that I'm looking for are a much improved topline, more depth to the body, and nice correct legs. Icewater's topline and legs all scored 7's, which is acceptable. From what I've heard from people with babies, his foals all seem to be correct or at least quite improved in the topline, and it's kind of hard to tell with the legs but I see no glaring faults on any of them. And not that this is important, but not all of them are grey! I would love a steely grey that stays steely grey, or maybe one with lots of dapples, but I have zero desire to ever own a fleabitten grey. I pitch fits over Gogo's TINY little socks.... can you even IMAGINE me with a grey horse? I'd be killing myself every day and my hands would be perma-purple from all the whitening shampoo. Obviously color is beside the point, but well, you know ;)

With this stallion, I would have access to unlimited event/jumper potential via sire and damside. He didn't get a perfect "10" for his pedigree for nothing you know! Most notably, Icewater has Cor de la Bryere on both sides, a legend in his own right with a very strong prepotent tendency to pass along his mind-boggling bascule. Icewater's dam Cicera is also full sister to the legendary Cavalier Royale, arguably one of the most influential and highly sought after event stallions of all time, proven producer of multiple two, three, and four-star horses and Rolex champions, most recently Clayton Fredericks' Ben Along Time in 2008. Having access to these bloodlines means tapping into an entire world of proven event breeding, which is EXACLTY what I want. His pedigree is completely different from hers, which I quite think is an asset in this case. She has Ladykiller xx twice in her pedigree, which is fantastic - can't have too much Ladykiller in my mind - but I would rather NOT double up on anything else in her family. His family, however? Doubling up on the Cor de la Bryere gives me the good goosebumps.

Icewater's produce at this stage are hard to assess, because as a younger and less-proven stallion he has inadvertently been bred to not the highest quality mares. The offspring I've seen are a mixed bag given their completely varied mothers, but I've seen improvements in all of them. At this point, you can't give them any uniformity though. You couldn't pick an Icewater foal out of a herd at this point. Out of quality mares, he is producing champions on the line. As Gogo herself is a pretty nice mare and I would be TOTALLY happy to have another carbon copy of her with absolutely no improvements at all, it's certainly a risk worth taking for me in case no improvements come of the match. I fully expect, however, that the two of them would cross VERY nicely and I'd have a fantastic eventer on my hands.

Now let me also tell you why I nixed the other two potential stallions on my list. I have always had my eye on Lintas, the highest bonited stallion in AHHA history, but since being imported he's done absolutely nothing so I have no idea of what he's capable of. His produce are all very nice, but again, what are they useful for? The thing that killed him for me though was not his lack of a competitive career. It was the fact that he's already been doubled up on Landgraf I. Basic rule of thumb if you're ever looking at this particular line: never can have enough Ladykiller, but more than one Landgraf and it's TOO much. Landgrafs tend to be a little late-maturing and somewhat opinionated, and having Landgraf twice in a pedigree is an almost certain recipe for, ah, behavioral issues. Gogo has Landgraf on her sireside (her grandsire) and we all know how temperamental she gets sometimes. I'd really rather NOT add fuel to that fire, thanks.

Exactly the same reason I nixed Riverman. High quality stallion, high quality offspring (or total barf offspring... there seems to be no middle ground), proven producer of high-level eventers. BUT Riverman offspring are notoriously difficult to break, I don't care what anyone tells you about them. Once they get going they're not so bad, but they really can be TOUGH and they are OPINIONATED. Why? Probably something to do with the fact that he too has Landgraf on both sides. Everybody ALWAYS asks if I'll be breeding to Riverman. Uh, no thanks... I'd rather keep my brains intact. Fantastic quality offspring for a professional, but for me with my already Landgraffed and opinionated mare? I'll tell you one thing, crossing strong-willed with strong-willed is not a good recipe for a fun time.

I am also happy to report that given Gogo's performance history, type and potential future, the breeder (a wonderful woman) has informed me that she knocks $1000 off his stud fee for performance mares like mine. That's what I like to hear ;)

EDIT: Video of a nice colt by Icewater.

And go here to look at more Icewater foals - make sure to check out the video of Cerano, an Icewater colt with Landgraf I in his pedigree too. Sweet!


Amy B said...

wow, gorgeous stallion! and 22's/24's in Prelim Dressage? Impressive.
hope it all works out, because they look like a good match!

manymisadventures said...

Man, what a nice horse. LOVE his jump.

I am sure the Gogobaby adventure will be wonderful!

Melissa said...

That is one good looking baby-daddy. What a graceful animal. (It also doesn't hurt that I'm a sucker for dapple greys!)

Good luck with the Go-baby!

Serena said...

That horse can JUMP!!!!

hwbowen said...

I don't usually go for the warmbloods but that? Is one sexy horse.

Heidi said...

Did you see the latest Eventing USA 2.0? It's got 2 different breeding issues, so a perfect fit for your post today!

Heidi said...

Breeding articles, that is...

Nicku said...

LOVE him Andrea! Wonderful choice!!! Now, is he taking Go-go out to dinner before hand or??? :P

Sam said...

I think he's beautiful! As my knowledge of conformation and breeding are about nil, I'll end there. I can't wait to see this baby! :)

Beckz said...

FWIW Corofino II is a really long wasp waisted horse, and Icewater looks a bit the same. Whether that makes any difference or not I don't know. Still it's good breeding, Corofino II is exceptional over a fence.

Nicole Redman said...

You're going to have a grey baby and I'm going to laugh at you.

tangerine said...

He is most certainly gorgeous. Can't wait to see how the gogobaby turns out! Steely grays are nice, but dapples are so fun if you can learn when to bring in the whitening shampoo and when not to. The best of luck!

eventer79 said...

Lovely stud -- you know all greys pretty much eventually grey out to white, right? And grey is an extremely dominant gene, so chances are baby will eventually go grey at some point and fade throughout its life. Not that colour matters one whit to me (ok, well, I won't buy a grey because I hate cleaning) but just so ya know! ;-)

Nikki Tucker said...

Thank you sooooo much for sharing your research and findings about Ciceras Icewater. I, too, am breeding my "opinionated" AHHA mare (Landgraf I) to Cicera this year. Good luck and I will be watching for news about Gogo's baby!